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Washington Women’s Heritage Project records, 1900-2000 
University of Washington Libraries Special Collections 
Mary Masako Suzuki Aoki 
1979 
Cassette 2, Side 2 
 
Jill G. Smith  00:11 
You don't enjoy interpreting.  
 
Mary Aoki  00:12 
Yeah, but Tia asked that I go, so I went up with another foreign student. And the first meeting, 
they had closed meetings and open meetings, meaning open to the press. And the first meeting 
was open to the press. There were just lots of photographers with their cameras there. And after 
the representative for the Prime Minister of Canada spoke, he nodded to me-- oh, first he started 
to say a few words and nod to me because he thought it'd be simultaneous interpreting, you 
know. And then that was my mistake. I didn't tell him that you have to finish one sentence, or at 
least a thought, before I could-- because the English and Japanese were completely the opposite. 
You can't really interpret unless there's one thought [inaudible] and so-- but he nodded to me 
after I'd explained this, and then I was tongue tied, and nothing would come out. Then he put his 
arm around me, That's all right, you know. Now I was just so embarrassed, I was about ready to 
cry, I think. And then I told myself, you know, come on now, let's not be like this. Then after 
that, it was okay. And then I found out, not to my surprise, but all the biologists and everyone 
knew what all the technical terms were. And so it turned out that they understood each other 
perfectly. It was just the inbetweens, and little nuances, and things that had to be-- and then, of 
course, in a meeting like this, it has to be interpreted. So I was sent. But I did feel one thing, 
Certain monetary decisions, like the Canadian government representative, American government 
representative, the delegates themselves had enough authority to say, Okay. The Japanese said, 
Sorry, we have to wire our Ministry of Finance so we will not have an answer until tomorrow. 
And I thought, Oh, gee, a poor country and they-- but, so since then, I was asked to do the 
Pacific Rim Fish-- well, I guess I did that before the mayor's conference. And then Judge Smith, 
who is now a law professor at the University with-- on the prosecuting attorney staff, and he 
asked if I would interpret for some of the Issei, first generation Japanese that could not speak 
English, in criminal cases where they were assaulted, there were arson cases, and then I would 
go and interpret for them. Now, of course, I was very thoroughly quizzed by the defense attorney 
whether there was any kind of collusion, if I knew these people or not, and I just humble swear 
in my life away saying that I did not know the person at all. But I did lots of interpreting like 
that. Then I started to do a more lucrative kind of-- oh, that was quite lucrative too, but certainly 
Japanese groups would come and I'd be asked to interpret for them. So then, it was a part time 
thing where I didn't have leave. It wasn't a steady job, or not even a part time job. Occasionally, 
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you know, I would have maybe three or four things to do a month, which gave me enough 
money so that I could buy certain things if I wanted to.  
 
Jill G. Smith  03:57 
Did you enjoy the work? 
 
Mary Aoki  03:58 
No, I enjoyed meeting with people from Japan. Then I realized that my command of the Japanese 
language wasn't keeping up with present trends like pollution and all these things that were 
happening in Japan. And so then, I got certain dictionaries from Japan that-- because I don't read 
the Japanese newspapers. Now I became very unfamiliar with many of the new terms that they 
were using. I could pick up on what they were saying, but they were new to me: condominiums, 
pollution, all these things were post-war kinds of things that-- so then I had [?Monta?] send to 
me-- every year, a brand new dictionary appears, and new words that are incorporated into the 
Japanese language. And so that was a great job, and that was the only kind of work I did until 
1973 when Jan said, Would you like to do some interpreting in Central Area for Model City? 
And so I said, Sure, you know, it's part time. So that's when I started interpret-- I mean 
interviewing. And that whole experience was very interesting, because it was the first time I 
really had gone into poverty level homes. And in many ways, it was like a different culture. And 
I went into homes where you don't even see a newspaper or magazine. And all in all because of 
this experience, it really made me [inaudible]. I think all these things are a great learning 
experience. And after that, Model Cities-- and it was again for Dr. Richardson. Now he was a 
headman on the project, he was principal investigator, and Vicki was-- I sort of saw her, only at 
parties, but I guess she had something do at the field. And my boss at that time, the field 
supervisor was Dell Bowers, from whom I learned an awful lot, and it's her job that what Jen and 
I are doing now. And after that, I did some work for the nat-- NLRT, [?National Human 
Research Center?]. This, again, was a part time job, and it worked in very well with my kind of 
schedule, still having to take children to dentists, to appointments, all this type of thing. But now 
that Ann is a sophomore in high school. Like going into doctors, pretty much, doing things on 
her own, so that's why I've been working full-time.  
 
Jill G. Smith  06:54 
How many children do you have? 
 
Mary Aoki  06:54 
I have three. Actually, my oldest is 22 and she's a student in engineering. She switched from art 
to engineering. And very artistic, tried everything. But Ann and Julie are super good in math. She 
wanted-- she decided that she would make more money going into engineering, and she really 
missed math, which is a strange phenomenon, as far as I'm concerned, I don't think I'd ever need 
to know of. She likes it. And Peter went to school, tried it twice, and he still-- he quit. In many 
ways-- well, I hope that he's maturing now. He's making very good money working at Safeway, I 
guess going to a very strong union. He makes between 15 and 1,700 a month, and that's why, 
you know, he doesn't like the whole business of distribution. He wants to take certain courses at 
the University. Well, there's a prerequisite for this, and you must do this. You must take care of 
the distribution before. And I think it's very disillusioned with those huge, enormous quantities 
of hundreds of students. And maybe it would've been smarter if I-- we had sent him to a small 
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college like Bellingham. And again, I didn't see things through, I pretty much they knew what I 
would like for them to aspire but, but then tells me that, Mom, you've always told me that some 
of the people that never went to school are some of the brightest people you know. So I said, 
That's true, but I said, Still in this world, it would be better. It would really be nice if you would 
have the college experience. And he told me, Well, give me one good reason for going to 
college. And Yosh said, Well, the only thing I can think of is that it may keep you from 
becoming a redneck. And I said, Well, that's a good reason to send him, because it broadens your 
horizon. We see things from different perspectives. We see attitudes of different people and then 
so you're not in a very political situation. And I thought that was a very good answer. So I told 
them that I can feel [?sad?] that it was-- and but I said that also there has to be that desire to want 
to learn something. But I said, If you didn't have that now, maybe it'll come to you later. So I 
wasn't going to push it, making him complete things [inaudible]. 
 
Jill G. Smith  09:48 
You have mentioned that you've seen the University of Washington go from 15,000 to how 
many thousands it is. 
 
Mary Aoki  09:59 
Yeah, 35,000. 
 
Jill G. Smith  09:59 
What other changes can you think that you've seen in Seattle since you've been here?  
 
Mary Aoki  10:03 
Oh, in Seattle? Oh, I think that Seattle, it's become an arty city. Lots of good theater and lots of 
interesting good restaurants and-- Seattle is small enough that you know what most of the big 
honchos or the little guys are doing. There seems to be-- you could-- it's not so vast that you can't 
reach out and feel-- you know how the city functions, how it works, politics, or whatever. You 
have pretty much a feeling like a councilman, you know, like, you know the councilors from 
Seattle Council, races are coming up. And you really-- before you say, Well, okay, I'm going to 
be committed to this person. Well, you know, like Walt Crowleys come up, all sorts of 
interesting people are coming up here. [?Lacata?] and Sibonga are running against each other. 
You know, all these-- I think that there's, it's small, but still, there's enough art, lots of good 
craftsmen and good concerts. Very accessible, much cheaper than other large cities, and I don't 
know, and it's a marvelous place to live, I think. Because I enjoy Seattle very much. When I go 
elsewhere, I enjoy other places too. There's so many other places I would love to get to, London, 
or to New York someday. But as I told you, I've never been east of Indianapolis, and that's only 
because I, again, went on an interpreting trip to Indianapolis. If we were driving on the freeway, 
and it said so many miles to Louisville, Kentucky. And I just couldn't believe that I was so near 
Kentucky. It just shook up to think that I'd-- so then, that was the first time I truly realized that I 
was so-- I was way out east, you know, I wonder-- if we're getting  
 
Jill G. Smith  12:22 
Did something bite you?  
 
Mary Aoki  12:25 
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No.  
 
Jill G. Smith  12:28 
I'd like to ask, have you, when your children are growing up and going to school in Seattle, did 
you ever have to tell them about orange and apples or-- as they were growing up? Or have 
attitudes in Seattle changed along with the -- 
 
Mary Aoki  12:43 
I think Seattle, the attitudes have changed. There were twice in my life that once was a very 
revealing experience, and I appreciated the teachers' honesty. She told me that Peter was in 
second grade, and she said she asked Peter, What are you Peter? And he says, Oh, I'm Peter. And 
she says, No. She says, Are you-- what race are you? What are you? And are you Japanese? And 
Peter said, Oh, I'm not Japanese, but I think my mother used to be, you know, and when he said 
that to her, she realized that she had asked him almost a dishonest question, she felt. She felt 
dishonest in the sense that, you know, he was a little boy who, you know, you don't ask second 
grade children about race and stuff. Well, she said that anyway, it kind of shook her up. And then 
the other experience was that Julie came home and told me that today, Mr. Miller asked us if we 
all went to Sunday school, and most of us raised our hands, and we all had to tell him where he 
went. And said that I went to the Buddhist Church Sunday school. He said, Ask me if I was a 
monkey in the last world? And so she said, I don't know what you mean. And said, Well, don't 
you believe in reincarnation? And she says, I don't know what you mean, what is that? And then 
she said, He was trying to explain, but I didn't understand him, but I told him that it looked like, 
because I was only on the [inaudible] Sunday school that I told Mr. Miller that it certainly looked 
like all the grandparents that crossed the Atlantic Ocean went to St Mark's and all the 
grandparents across the Pacific, it seemed like attended the Buddhist Church. When she told me 
that story, I thought, For a third grader, that was pretty astute thinking. You know, for her to tell 
that teacher that, and that was about the only time I felt sort of a twinge. That I was sorry that she 
had to be selected out and, you know, and I thought the teacher was ignorant, but also that this 
had to happen in such a way that, you know, developed a way that children made her think that 
she was really different.  
 
Jill G. Smith  12:59 
It kind of proved she could take care of herself. 
 
Mary Aoki  15:25 
Yeah, she was always like-- when they had to do landmarks in your neighborhood. And she drew 
[?cheese, historic cheese?], all done in bright blue [laughs] Broadway, and the teacher posted it 
along with the fire station and the churches, you know. And so Walter at-- he just, just loved it so 
much, and he wanted to have it, but then she never got back from her teacher. But I told Walter 
that you know how, you know how our kids draw because it was always a treat to go to 
[inaudible] store [inaudible] landmark.  
 
Jill G. Smith  15:25 
Good for customers?  
 
Mary Aoki  16:11 
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Yeah, sure, so I think our children-- it's been an interesting neighborhood. There are many 
architects, and interior decorators, and people-- lots of artists, and we've had a lot of contact with 
people like that, and I mean, they're influenced naturally by that. So I think they have very 
sophisticated tastes, and [inaudible]. 
 
Jill G. Smith  16:38 
Can you see any connections from your parents, and to your adult-- childhood and adult life and 
your children, do you see any connections that are a real strong cultural strain or? 
 
Mary Aoki  16:53 
Yeah, I think that, first of all, the probability of my marrying Japanese is probably not as strong 
as maybe my marrying [?occasion?], simply because of the numbers, okay? But she liked her 
name, Aoki, and she was not going to give that up. Also, I think there are many things Japanese 
that they really appreciate. And my cousin, David, who broadcasts that moderate program called 
Science Magazine by CDC, a Canadian TV, he wrote an interesting paper when he was at 
Amherst about-- this for a psychology class that he took. Said that, Although the third and fourth 
generation, they may look oriental, but there's nothing in them that he can truly identify as 
Japanese, and yet for them, the one thing cultural that seems to remain, remains in food. That 
they love, things Japanese food, and seems that they sometimes get craving for sushi and things, 
because it's been a part of their upbringing. You know, although they speak only English at 
home, et cetera, certain foods that are Japanese. So I thought kind of sad in a way, but I thought 
was very interesting that, you know, food would have such a strong, you know, almost like a 
[vision?]. The only thing they could see was-- that he could see was this, and it was a very 
revealing thing. But I think there's more to it than that. Their very close tie to their grandparents. 
They ask about-- they tried to learn Japanese to be able to accommodate my mother. They asked 
me how certain things-- like I told you the story about my nephew when he went to school in 
first grade. In kindergarten, he went to school and the teacher said, since it's a multiracial class, 
asked the students, Is there anyone here who can speak something besides English? And so my 
sister's oldest son, Leslie, raised his hand, so he said, Leslie Obata, will you come to the front of 
the class and tell us what you know? So he said, Well, I know some Japanese. He says, Well, 
would you tell us some things that you know in Japanese? So he said yes. And he started out by 
saying [in a Japanese accent], Banana, you know, strawberry, tomato. You know, to him, that 
was Japanese, because that's what his grandmother spoke. And Miss Aruto, this teacher, loved it 
so much that she sent it into the New Yorker, and it was one of those little blurbs that are here. 
Was kind of a touching story. But she was-- she really thought, Well, how true, you know, to 
him. And when this-- when we told my mother about this, then she became very embarrassed 
about her speech, in the sense she tried to improve herself and so strawberry ice cream [in a 
Japanese accent] became strawberry. She was really trying very much to, you know. The 
Japanese seemed to have much more difficulty learning English than other audios, like, for 
instance, Chinese. I finally come to the conclusion that because the sentence structure in Chinese 
is similar to English, that-- and it is the reverse in Japanese. I think things like that have a big 
bearing on whether they learn quickly or don't. I really feel that. The way they formulate the 
sentences in their mind, it's always not in the proper order.  
 
Jill G. Smith  16:53 
Do you see yourself being in Seattle for years to come here?  
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Mary Aoki  21:05 
I think so. Probably, yeah, we like it here. Probably will die and live and die in this house, 
maybe. But we intend to do a lot more traveling and-- like now, Yosh just thought he would 
never, never like coming to Hawaii, because I don't like to lie in the sun, et cetera. But the 
children begged him, Oh, we'd like to go to Hawaii so much. So, four years ago, we went to 
Hawaii, and guess who loved the place so much? We did. So now, it's just we go there every 
year now, because it is so relaxing. It's a marvelous place to sit and read, [inaudible]. 
 
Jill G. Smith  22:02 
Are you leaving [inaudible]? 
 
Mary Aoki  22:02 
Yeah. We're leaving the ninth and we'll be back at the end of the month. So it'll be a week from 
the spaceship. Except my children are a little upset because we're flying United, which is a DC-
10. I know. But I told them that it's been checked so thoroughly. We've flown DC-10s to LA 
before. The common mental results for DC 10-- well, I guess when you're young, death is a very-
- I don't know. I just-- so if it happened to 747 too, I just want to think about this thing and take 
things that come with them. 
 
Mary Aoki  22:02 
Yeah [inaudible]. It'll be very nice. 
 
Jill G. Smith  22:02 
[Inaudible.] It comes up when? 
 
Jill G. Smith  22:35 
Do you think that your Buddhist background has given you a different outlook on some things 
like death [inaudible] that have transpired? 
 
Mary Aoki  22:51 
Because in Buddhism, there's-- a concept of God cannot exist. It's a nontheistic religion. It's 
nontheistic, in the sense of, you know, Christ, the Son of God. You know, this thing. And I think 
that-- it's more-- you read-- in Buddhism, some of the classes I've taken and the sutras that have 
been more interpreted, et cetera, and they talk about the universe and other life, and other, in 
space somewhere, in the universe, if there are other-- I don't know, in many ways, it's more 
scientific, or it's on a level that I can understand. Christian religion, to me, it's difficult for me to 
understand because that kind of mystical experience is something that I've never had. You see, if 
someone tells me this is a table. I can comprehend, I can visualize, an image immediately 
appears. But a concept of God is, I think it's something that, again, you're probably born with. 
Maybe it's a social inheritance too, but in the sense that that's the way that you're brought up, and 
so maybe the images are different. You know, it's difficult for me to envision religion to be-- 
well, I think the universe is very mysterious, very interesting, very all this, but I just don't believe 
in life after death and this type of thing. I believe that one should try to do as much as you can, 
live all the experiences, do unto others, really as much as you can, because that's what makes life 
worthwhile. I mean, to be nice to someone, it's a marvelous thing, you know? And likewise, 
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when someone is nice to you, you get a marvelous feeling. It's a sharing. It's a-- Oh no. People 
are very accommodating. We do lovely things for each other. We can do mean things too. But I 
think my kind of religion, I think that I've been brought up in, is more an ethical one. It's a 
standard of morality of seeing who you are, and you know, like the-- like, my dad always told 
me that everything in the universe was just terrific, you know, like rocks, just everything around 
you, whether you're adamant or inanimate. Whatever he said. You know, that's what makes life 
so interesting to you, and so that-- so to this day, I have difficulty saying why, but you know, it's 
that-- it's not because I was brought up in a Freudian manner, because of this or that, or anything 
like that. It's not because I love mosquitoes, because they bite me, but I don't know. Well, I guess 
it's, it's just-- my dad always, kind of-- that's how he sees the world. He always saw even beauty 
in rats, because they had beautiful intelligent faces, and that's how I remember them, too. There 
are lots of things like that just unconsciously, you carry on. Like even little mannerisms, like 
when milk used to be delivered, even when it's delivered in cotton's mouth. I would wipe the 
bottom because my mother always did that. I find my kids doing the same thing. It's probably 
because you just take it out of the box [inaudible] and leave the bottle at the table. So before we 
do, we usually wipe it [inaudible]. I see my kids doing the same thing. And it's simply because, 
when someone called it my attention, it occurs to me now because my mother did it.  
 
Jill G. Smith  27:38 
That's been going for generations now. 
 
Mary Aoki  27:39 
Yeah, these little mannerisms that you pick up that do belong. I don't know. I just feel like this is 
such an interesting subject, I wish that I could really zero in and say something very-- make it 
worth your while, you know. But anyway, it's I feel like I'm missing all sorts of important things. 
But anyway. 
 